While reading through acts 6:8 – 8-1 I could not fail to be amazed at the vivid account of Stephen before the council. His speech is one of the longest in Acts and is very detailed. I know that Luke researched his work very thoroughly, but I have been left wondering who spoke to him about it.
Firstly the meeting was held in private and only the council members and their supporters would have been present. Stephen was ‘lifted’ off the street so there would have been no time for the apostles to have shown up, and shortly afterwards the church did a runner out of Jerusalem in fear of the persecution from the Jewish leaders. So who told Luke this detailed account of what Stephen said and the other eye witness elements of the account?
Personally I think that it must have been Saul / Paul. We know he was present at the stoning and since that was an overspill from the council I think it is fair to say he must have been in that meeting. We know that Gamalial was part of the council so it is fair to presume that one of his prominent followers would have been as well.
In Acts 6:15 we are told that “they saw his face like an angel” this is only admissible via an eye witness again this points to someone who Luke had access to after the event someone from the council that was also a Christian at a later date.
We are also told in Acts 7:59 his final prayers as he was dying, again this could only have come from someone who had been a witness to it and we know Paul was there as well. Especially as the stoning would have been done away from prying eyes as it was highly illegal and the Romans would not have been pleased about it.
So if Acts 6:8 – 8:1 are the recollections of Paul I would like to put forward a possible candidate for what Paul calls this “Thorn was given in my flesh” in 2Cor12:7. Could this thorn be his grief and remembrance of the persecution he waged on church which we are informed of later in Acts and the stoning of Stephen?
The full verse is
“So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. “
Now I have always been a supporter for the thorn to be a physical illness, now I am not so sure. Maybe this is something more emotional or psychological. Paul calls himself the ‘Least’ of the apostles because of his former action Eph 3:8 & 1 Cor 15:9, so maybe this is what stops him from becoming conceited. This ‘thorn’ is a reminder of what he has done to keep Paul ‘grounded’. It was also a thorn that God did not want to remove, in the next verse we see that Paul has asked three times for it to be removed, but he gets the reply of “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in your weakness”.
I don’t really have much more to say about this, it may be complete rubbish but it was just something that caught my eye and got me thinking. I guess in terms of life application it just shows again and again that God will use those who HE will use, and sometimes He will choose the least likely person to do what He wants doing. I think it also shows that even the great hero’s of the bible and early church were real people, with real personalities, real concerns, and real problems…. just like me and you. It also shows that our life as Christians will never be a bed of roses because in our weakness is His true glory and power found.
Feel free to leave yor comments on this I think it could be something to discuss further.
Interesting thoughts although I’m afraid I disagree.
If my thoughts are worth anything then here they are, if not the skip to the next persons comment:
I’m very much in the ‘physical weakness’ camp. I believe that Paul had an issue with his eyes, probably brought on by an illness, or possible was the illness describes but either way stayed with him. In his letter to the Galatians Pauls writes:
“13As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. 14Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15What has happened to all your joy? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” Gal 4:13-15
Further more Paul, in Gal 6:11 says:
“See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!”
This suggests that his eyes were still bad from when he was ill as he couldn’t write properly. I surmise that the large letters were becuase that was the only way he can read them (like when old people write with large letters today).
Also as you quote above 2 Cor 12:7 says:
“So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.”
This seems to suggest that the issue came about AFTER his revelationm not before. Also, it seems strange that he describes it as a thorn in the FLESH and not just as a thorn, or another analogy if it was not physical.
Obviously these are all speculations and don’t really matter that much but its nice to look at it. Thanks for having the courage to look at it from another angle and question the status quo! Thats how we learn.
In Christ,
Peter
Its true that it does not matter but it is fun to speculate Peter. I am still more convinced by the illness argument than mine, but as it has struck me of late I thought I would push it onto the blog for others to comment.
I think true bible study needs to have a series of good discussion or even wrangling over it before it becomes fixed in our lives.
For me a few male friends, a pint (or two or a glass of wine or two) and a lively bible discussion makes for a great night. Especially if people are up to speed on stuff.
That is an interesting point you raise. Personally, I am fairly convinced from the context of 2 Cornithians that the ‘thorn’ in his flesh are the hardships, persecutions and difficulties he is enduring as an apostle. I believe this from the context of ch.11 and also from what is made explicit in 12:10 in which the weaknesses (i.e. the thorn in his flesh) seem to be equated with hardships and persecutions.
Although not at all certain I would say this seems to be the least speculative suggestion for the thorn
BUt speculation is fun Ali!
Discussing Jesus with beer and mates is one of the best possible evenings.
I am 100% convinced that the “Thorn in the flesh” refers to persecution. Look at the context for starters…”Thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan”… If any illness was a messenger of Satan, then it can’t be from God. God has provided healing for us, prosperity for us, but not once does the Bible say we have deliverance from persecution.
The Phrase “Thorn in the flesh” can also be seen as a cultural phrase for persecution. There are 3 other times in the old testament that “thorn in the side” or “thorn in the eye” were quoted, and in each occassion it was in the context of Persecution (Numbers 33v55, Joshua 23v13 and Judges 2v3).
Lets also look at Galatians 4 as Pchurcher87 quoted above. If you look at this in a Chronological Bible, you will discover that this illness is within a few days of being stoned and left for dead (Acts 14v19). I have no problem with the thought that Paul could have still been badly cut and bruised with puffy eyes from that, and had taken a while to heal. Also, if he had written the entire letter of Galations in large letters, it would have made it extremely big, heavy and expensive in those times, considering the material it would be written on. No, I believe he wrote in large letters to put emphasis one of his comments.
Thorn in the flesh! an illness given to Paul by God…? nope, I can’t see it!
… Sorry just to Clarify, I believe the “Thorn in the flesh” was a demonic spirit that followed Paul wherever he went, stirring up persecution against Paul.
Hi HeartySong,
I like you interpretation however just to clarify a few points from my position I hold that the illness caused another issue (i.e. Cataracts), not just temporary damage. I also believe that this was something that God allowed, as a device to teach paul, not not that he ‘ordained’. Also, just to note you said that one of the reasons you doubt it was physical was because we know God can heal, however don’t we also know that God can exorcise demons? I also agree that Paul wouldn’t have written the whole thing (Galatians) but rather using an amanuensis, simply signing off to prove it was from him and not pseudopigraphal.
I am enjoying these discussions very much!
peter
Nobody says that the Thorn was caused by God but that God allowed it.
The thorn was from Satan not from God BUT God refused to remove it.
Read Job, God does the same thing in that book. He allows Satan to attack Job upto the point of death, he allows Satan to muder, main, destroy, plague and ruin Job and his family. God does not do it but he allows Satan to do it.
Also God does cause illness and disability. The bible clearly says that when Jesus was fighting Jacob he put his hip out and it was never healed. Again it was a rememberance of Gods power much like Pauls.
On the persecution front, I dont see how this can be used to stop Pauls conceit. In fact if anything Paul brags about his persecutions A LOT.
We have to remember that in the early church and for most of the churches lifetime, being persecuted, injured, attacked or even killed for the faith was a BADGE OF HONOUR something to boast of.
On a lesser point if God always heals then why does Paul when writing a pastoral letter to Timothy tell him to take some wine for the sake of his Stomach? Surely he should rebuke him for his lack of faith and tell him to live in the ‘Healing of the Lord’.
Does God heal, yes
Do we live in Christ completely healed and immune from sickness today, no we do not
Will we when He comes again, Yes.
Just caught your blog in researching this question. I agree with the idea of the thorn being his remorse over Stephen.Yeshua had already forgiven him but Paul would not let go and it was the driving force that let him endure ANY hardship. Another thought – Look at the start of 2 Cor chapter 12 and I believe the man Paul knew was Stephen. He was telling us of Stephen to relate th problem with the Thorn and that god’s grace is sufficient